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Thursday, September 06, 2007

Cliff's Feminist Rant

We got to talking about the women of Big Brother the other night, and their relative lack of support for eachother. Since BB often serves as a microcosm for our greater societal ills, I thought it would be cool and interesting to discuss this all a bit further... while I get the Overnight Report Together. So... without further ado - bb8dish presents - Cliff's Feminist Rant! :) Enjoy & Talk amongst yourselves. I'll publish comments every 15 minutes or so while I do the OR.

Cliff's Rant

Weeks ago someone made a comment much to the same effect, but here I go ...

I find it continuously upsetting that so many women seem just won't stick together and up for each other and would rather tear other women down, be it in the house or around here.

 Jess & Dani are each using their own skills and strategies. Their personalities are simply what they are, only magnified by this pressure-cooker environment. Clearly, it seems that Dani's will take her at least one step farther than Jess.

 But I'm learning to really appreciate Dani for being a much better player than I had seen at first. I tell ya, Nick getting booted was the best thing that happened for her game. Less distractions.

 I wonder if JEric hadn't happened if Jess would be better at playing for herself or if she would have gone out even sooner.

 Oh, and on the women-sticking-together-thing: How bizarre that the one time that it happened on purpose and not by accident (see Jun/Alison, BB4) was the "Friendship" in BB6 and in addition to them being horribly annoying and smug, it only served to tear down one strong woman competitor (Janelle).To review:

Season One: It was a different game all right, but, considering it was America voting all the way through, it bears noticing that it was three men who made it to the end and since practically day one, America had it in for Jamie. And the hatred became white-hot when she chose to take a meeting with a Hollywood producer rather than with her mother (whom she knew she'd be seeing in a few weeks anyway). A woman chose her chosen career over a sentimental family moment and was never forgiven.

Season Two: Shannon, clearly cast as the Reality Cliché "Bitch" character, quickly targets Autumn and uses her sensitivity about her weight to completely demolish her. Meanwhile, Shannon, one of three strong women, aligns with a strong man, Will. In the end, it is Will who is rewarded for his conniving, while Nicole is trashed for being deceptive. And lest we forget that Nicole herself chose to align with puppetmaster Will in the end over Krista and Monica.

Season Three: Curiously, strong woman Danielle choses to make her secret alliance with weaker male player, Jason, and is tortured over her final decision to throw him overboard for a final teaming with Lisa. Weaker player Lisa is rewarded for being nicer (being "nice" being a more traditional female role).

Season Four: Strong Erika aligns with male Jack. Two strong scheming women, Alison and Jun, are in the finals. They had been rivals pretty much the entire time and in teaming up at the end engendered so much hatred that the final vote was a portrait of disgust on behalf of the jury for having to pick one of two hard-playing women. No gestures of acclaim for scheming success as with Will's win in Season Two.

Season Five: Men come right out of the gate making a strong alliance which makes it right to the end with Drew and Michael. The concept of "bros before 'hos" is illustrated when Drew dumps his girlfriend in the house Diane for his male ally. For the first time, an alliance of women (Nakomis and Karen) with gay male Will is formed, mostly out of necessity to counter the male alliance, but is completely sidetracked when evicting the female twin pair of Adria and Natalie becomes the priority. Whichever group was to blame for the breakdown, it resulted in allowing the men to get to the final two.

Season Six: A complete switch, wherein a large alliance dominated by women (and one gay man) controls the game for most of the season. The strongest competitor, Janelle, aligns with the men and is target number one of the "Friendship." The audience appears to detest the women's alliance.

Season Seven: For the second time two women are put up the first week. (To date, no two men have been nominated together the first week. In Season Eight, again two women were put up the first week.) Arguably the strongest female players, Danielle and Janelle do not team up and instead are rivals. In Janelle's case she is pitted against Danielle and later Erika by chief "bros before hos" team of Will and Mike. Mike, similarly isolates Erika by sucessfully preventing her from aligning with the other strong women.

Season Eight: Kail starts the process all over again by consciously chosing to align with "three strong men." The female pairing of Kail and Jen are repeatedly targeted until they are removed. The (arguably) weak female pairing of Amber/Jameka are the next targets. Weaker female player Jessica (at this writing) is next in line to be picked off. Again, a strong female player, Daniele choses to align with men (her father, Dick and Zach) over women.

And it's not about tearing down men and targeting them, but women supporting strong women.

(I know, more psycho-babble from the Cliffster.)

Hoping for that long-promised but never-realized rise of the sisterhood.


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Anonymous Anonymous said...

Women are threatened by other women and men perpetuate this by the never ending desire to "hit it" with as many females as possible. Women dress for other women, the never ending search for the fountain of youth, plastic surgery and botox. Women have been wired wrong from infancy to believe as Dani states "you can never be to rich, thin or blond"

7:17 AM  
Blogger Beth & Eric said...

Very true... which is "sooo sad".

7:23 AM  
Blogger Rallen said...

Ok, all I have to say is maybe it would be easier to get behind the BB females if there where not so many biyatches. And honestly, I tend to gravitate to the smart women, which nevers seems to be more than one in the house at a time... maybe that is the real conspiracy... Oh and the "friendship" was not hated because they where mostly women....we would need another entire front page for those reason. I just want to erase them from my BB data file, the only grace from that episode was that it brought us JANELLE!

7:23 AM  
Blogger Evel Girl said...

Cliff- Thank you for sharing your wisdom and insight with all of us. Wonderfully written. Everytime you grace us with your thoughts they are intellegent, witty, and thought provoking. You're brilliant dahling! MUAH!

7:23 AM  
Blogger Innamorata said...

Wow, FANTASTIC piece Cliff! Incredibly thought provoking dear sir!!!

I have to agree with Rallen though, I truly don't feel that The Friendship was hated based on it's number of females. There was days worth of reasons why, and while that may have been one, it was one of so many it would be impossible to list! LOL Ick, I like to pretend they never existed, that is how sickening they were to me.........

Women are something else when it comes to other women. As you said Cliff, all this rah rah ya ya sistahood crap and then BLAM, they are the 1st ones to tear one another down. Sad........


7:30 AM  
Anonymous jen donato said...

"Hoping for that long-promised but never-realized rise of the sisterhood. Hmmph."

on that note Cliff, you are now an honorary member of the sisterhood, and is tasked to lead us out of the darkness that is jealousy, wariness, and dread of one another.

7:33 AM  
Blogger Cliff O'Neill said...

Thank you all for your kind words.

Oh, and, yes, there are a million different reasons "The Friendship" was insufferable, delisuional lot.

But as horrid as those folks were, you have to hand it to Maggie for keeping that team in line and strong-arming her way across the finish line, even marching over the body of her own alliance member, Ivette.

7:35 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Sorry Cliff. I was hoping for a little dish on the HG's. Not that your comments weren't interesting, just not as exciting as I anticipated!

I do agree with Dani's statement "you can never be too rich, thin or blond"!

That's is the code these days for most of America's women. Instead of love, patience, and honor, we get greed and vanity!

7:36 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cliff -- Brilliant and thanks!

I am female and couldn't agree more. Your words are more than just aobut the game, they are about society. Thant is why I get so irritated sometimes on this board. Comments so many times are about the people (and most often how the females are not being nice) and not about the game.

Well got news for you folks -- no one in that house seems very nice. They all lied, cheated and backstabbed in one way or another. But, that's what they have to do to win the game. And it's just that ... a game!

Just think what a powerhouse would have been created if Dani & Jess had aligned! THEN WE WOULD HAVE A GAME!

But alas. Just for the reasons you stated, didn't happen!


7:41 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't agree that Danielle was treated worse than Jason because of the female factor. Recall that the HGs were shown her DR sessions before deciding the winner and she had some of the most hateful DR session comments I've ever seen. True, some of the female related issues are compelling and make sense but as far as Season 3 Danielle had no one to blame but herself for losing (well, and perhaps BB for showing the DR sessions). She would have fared much better had she not been so heated and watched what she said in the DR. I think a jerk can be a jerk regardless of sex (and I am a female, for the record).

7:42 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

rallen -- so since the women are b*s and there are no smart ones you gravitate to a guy? Don't see many guys this season being much smarter than the women!

7:43 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

rallen -- about my response.

should have been "... smarter than the women, wh the exception of Amber"


And that's NOT because she's female.

7:50 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Alas....I think Dick has the mind of a woman! He's so far the first to break the 4HG's alliance. Dani & Jessica both talked about it, but didn't act on it!

Not to mention his "bitchy" tirade throught the house the week D/D were up on the block!

7:53 AM  
Blogger Evel Girl said...

Anon7:36- It's good that you don't say all women because this woman for one thinks Dani is a nut. I am brunette, average, and not rich or materialistic and I am very happy with myself and my life. I hate the way women want to look plastic and ultrathin. Collagen lips and nipping and tucking until they look like something other than human. Gross! Work with what you were given and be happy. It all starts from inside. That's where ALL the work needs to be done. Some of the most beautiful people I have ever seen were beautiful because they radiated beauty from within.

7:57 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cliff - I read your rant almost all the way through - but couldn't quite make it. Not because it wasn't insightful or interesting, but because if you were a 40 year old professional woman who picked 12 years of college and grad school over raising a family, you'd kind of go "duh."

Here's the thing - broad generalization as it may be - the world does not like strong, powerful, independent, smart women. And if you are one, the only way to handle it is with a big "screw you" and go about your business, taking your lumps when you have to.

It would be interesting (though hard to cast) to see this show with a number of middle aged professional women in the cast. It would a very different game. A lot of blood shed I'm sure, but a damn good game. (This will NEVER happen, we just don't look good enough in bikini's and no one wants to watch us make out).

I'm willing to bet that if Kail had not been the only one of her "kind" she would have player way differently.

8:01 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it was Dani that is breaking up the F4 alliance. She brought it up to Dick first and he resisted for a while.

8:02 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have to agree with your Danielle comment. If you rememeber, she tried to alighn herself at one point with Jess... she trusted her at one point, she confided in Jess that she thought Eric was the mystery vote to evict Nick and Jess within minutes told Eric.
Currently Danielle, is aligning herself with Dick and Zach, b/c that is the smart thing to do. Man or woman, she has no other choice.
Futher more, I think she is the best player in the house and deserves to win. I am rootin' for her. ~M

8:06 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon at 8:01 -- Had me hooked ... almost. You can be strong, powerful, independent and smart without having to be a professional.

That is also one of the issues females have with females. You are either on "that side" or "my side".

I am strong, powerful, independent and smart and chose not to be a professional. Have the utmost respect for those that are, just not for me!

8:23 AM  
Blogger Heidi Petrelli said...

You want to hear sad? I once was with a group of women at this get together and they started talking about women as friends.
Almost every one of those women
said they were NOT friends with other women. They were friends with males!
The main reason was "I don't trust women."
Uh hello? Self-hating of the gender much?

8:25 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I personally feel that if you had "middle aged professional women" (which I do not feel is the average in America) that no one would watch. It's the diversity of the HG's that makes it so enjoyable. Do you really think that Eric & Jessica would have ever met or gotten to know each other if they weren't on BB? That either would have given the other a second look?

I don't think Dorothy gets out of Kansas much!

I'm a 40 yr old professional woman - I personally would love to see more of the various other house guests than see more of Kail. I don't think she played a smart game.

Dani on the other hand is playing a good game, various options open and not any distraction (other than tanning & baking). Although she did say it was too late in the game for a DE, silly girl!

8:31 AM  
Blogger Jessie said...

Thanks for your insight Cliff!
It puts a lot into perspective for me not having seen the first several seasons, and how it played out in All Stars. I was rooting for Danielle, I wish she had made different choices.

In my opinion, be it what it may, the reason women behave this way towards other women is we can read each other too well. With men, there is always something yet to figure out. Women, we can read each other like a book. See right through each other. If you happen to find one you click with GREAT, but they are very few and far between!

8:43 AM  
Anonymous the other woman said...

if one chooses to dye her hair, or choose to have a nip here and a tuck there, or have collagen lips - does not make a person. just because some of us are happy with what we naturally have and others are not, does not mean shallowness on the part of those who choose to have their physical looks "enhanced".

true, beauty (and i don't mean just the physical) comes from within, but i don't think being judgmental is working on ones "inner beauty".

50+ days ago, these people were total strangers (estranged from each other) thrown in a fishbowl to play a game for $500K. i don't believe that what we see of them, day in and day out, are true representations of themselves. it's easy for us to criticize and judge them, and that's because we are outside of the bowl looking in.

8:48 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

anon 8:01 - you kind of made my point. I wasn't slamming non-professional women (and I certainly didn't mean non-professional women can't be smart, strong, and independent). I'm talking about societal attitudes. I think moms are percieved differently than non-moms (which is why, I think anyway, Kail talked about her family and not her businesses). But I wasn't setting up a competition, just trying to make a point about a particular group and the way the world percieves them.

anon 8:31 - I totally agree, no one would watch, which is why it ain't gonna be on TV. No, professional, etc women are not average, but neither are Hooters or Vegas waitresses, or for that matter cheer leader college students. I'm not suggesting the show should be filled with middle aged women LOL. (Not a ratings bonanza). Just saying it would be a very different game.

If I can sum up my point - it's that what Cliff said about perceptions of strong women is not really news to strong women.

8:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Amen! I totally agree with the other woman!

8:58 AM  
Blogger Evel Girl said...

In response to the other woman, I am not judging anyone, really. I am stating my personal opinion. I don't believe enhancing ones looks makes them shallow at all. I think all people are beautiful just in being who they are. Maybe I should have stated it in another way. I do appologize if what I said is offensive or rubs anyone the wrong way. It is exactly why I have been careful to never be too serious or heavy to this point.

9:10 AM  
Blogger Innamorata said...

To play defense for Eval Girl, I have to say this. I don't think she was implying that if one DOES choose to enhance their outside appearance then they are somehow shallow or less of a being that she is. I think she was trying to emphasize that women should embrace themselves more as is because THAT is enough and it beautiful in it's own right. If I am way off here EG, let me know.....

And no being judgemental isn't something to boast of, but it's also a human instinct unless you are made of wire and steel. If anyone claims they never are, well, that's baloney........

Ironic. I just posted about this struggle I have, of being judgemental at times. I am. Why lie? When I catch myself doing it, I curb it and reel myself in.

Judging the HG's, well, yeah that is what we do. That's what THEY would do if they were looking at us. That's what they will do if and when they read these blogs and posts. It's all part of the way people behave whether we like it or not. They placed themselves on television so for scrutiny and judgement to never come to the forefront is a tad naive.

What I don't like is when someone takes their judgement and makes it WORD. When their opinion, view etc. becomes the end all be all and they then act as though their views are superior to others. That's when it gets obnoxious and insensitive for me.

Do I think it's a true & complete representation of them? Oh hell no! Of course there is so much more to them than what we will ever see. Do I think that it is a fair representation of an aspect of their true character? Yes it is.

They have said and done what they have said and done, simple as that. We couldn't base opinions on dead air, so we form them based on what they say and do and I do think that is a fair and honest instict for a viewer to do.

To write a person we see on TV off as a bad person, or inferior to us, well that's absurd and speaks volumes of us if we do so. I think a lot of us viewers can be honest with ourselves and rationalize that we have no clue what WE would do in that house. I know i don't, and I freely call myself "evil" when I need to be :-)


9:20 AM  
Blogger Evel Girl said...

Alida- You are spot on. It just came off completely differently than I intended.

9:28 AM  
Anonymous the other woman said...

innamorata - I, too, struggle with being judgmental on a daily basis. It is a human flaw that I believe we should all make a conscious effort to check.

9:36 AM  
Anonymous the other woman said...

Hey, Evel Girl, in spite of your name, I know you're a wonderful girl. (How motherly does that sound?) =)

I apologize, too, if I misunderstood your comment. I guess that's the downside to not being able to communicate in person.

At least we have something in common - liking Dick.

9:38 AM  
Blogger Innamorata said...

Whew (wiping brow) thanks Eval :-)

Other Woman, amen to that mama! I think the act of being judgemental is only human. The conscious effort of reeling yourself in is divine (wink)

BOOYAH! Yeah we all love Signor Dick :-)

p.s. Ya don't sound motherly at all Other Woman, just considerate for your fairness :-)

9:48 AM  
Blogger Evel Girl said...

Thanks the other woman! :) :)
I think you are wonderful too!

Dick rocks!

9:48 AM  
Blogger Beth & Eric said...

I do find it quite interesting that even during this conversation about Women, female bloggers had to make sure that other women reading their comments understood them and their intentions. You all made great points and wrote/spoke to each other graciously, but still -- how ironic!

10:06 AM  
Blogger Cliff O'Neill said...

Such a great discussion and so many great points raised here.

A couple more things I wanted to take from the ones already made:

* In my mind "professional," in this context, doesn't mean white collar management vs. white/pink collar labor, but, shall we say a manner of comporting oneself with a certain degree of class. And that can happen (and sometimes doesn't happen) at any rung on the economic scale.

* The "Duh" Factor: Yep. Hardly a surprise to the millions of women who've gone through years of adult life in what is, to be honest, a male-dominated world. (Not to make people sound like victims; just being a realist.) I do get the sense that there are a host of far younger people (I'll assume women) on here that maybe haven't spent as much time thinking about that. Again, not that it's my job to educate folks; just making an observation.

* Danielle (BB3 & 7) was indeed screwed by production by allowing the jury to see her DR sessions. And what she said in there was the biggest factor in the vote against her. But, if you saw the finale that year you may remember the biggest discussion was not handing the money to "another Will (BB2)." I simply wonder if she had been a man would the same have been said. Just a thought.

* The lack of dishiness in this post: I tend to be funny in small bursts. And considering this can be a touchy subject and I'm *not* female, humor here could be *really* taken the wrong way. Didn't want that.

Other thoughts that cross my mind reading these great responses:

* Noting Janelle's comment about Jen's biggest failing (she said Jen erred in not "buttering up" Dick as he's the type of man who needs that kind of praise from women) was really telling. There appear to be two schools of thought among women in competitive mixed-gender environments: Those that feel that using one's sexuality is essential to success and those that feel it has no place. (Of course there are all kind of shades of grey.) But those two camps don't seem to get along (see entry "Friendship" v. Jedi Janie, 2005)

* And lastly -- sorry this is so long -- I was thinking about the gay men that have been on the show. Without getting into a discussion over whether Bunky was "stereotypical" or not (he certainly felt he was not), I find it curious that all the other gay men on the show (save Joe who didn't really align anywhere and left early) have aligned with women against (mostly) straight men.

And in virtually every case of that happening, eventually the gay man and straight woman/women would distrust each other and break up.

Only Bunky, who, again self-identified as "not stereotypical" (his words) aligned with straight men (homophobe Kent and resident musclehead Hardy).

And then there's Dusty who is aaaaaall alone in his own little category.

Again, thanks for the thought-provoking discussion. Now, back to the dish!

10:13 AM  
Blogger Innamorata said...

What do you mean B&E, I don't have enough caffeine in me yet to understand the irony! hee hee

For me personally, it IS important that anyone understand my intent on anything I write yes. It just so happens it was a female that I wanted to make it clear to. What rocks is the 2 women (Eval & Other and even me to an extent when I piped in) can perhaps have differeing views/opinions and still show some respect and appreciation once it's been said. They/We didn't tear one another down and that makes me happy.......

No need for it. Especially in an email/blog format when tone isn't always clear and things can be misinterpreted. I have seen people just DIVE on one another based on a mere sentence and it always floors me to see people jump on each other like that, not cool.

I love women hence why what Cliff wrote REALLY was insightful and touching in a way, and I try my best to never drag a fellow woman down :-)

Men are up for grabs folks!! NO! J/K LOL!!


10:27 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cliff I agree with you. Women hate other women regardless if they are a threat or not. Mother Teresa could be in the house and another women would go out of her way to be as nasty as possible to her. It is reflected more so in the comments. Dick has said some horrible things to the female houseguest, but it is played off as strategy.

11:13 AM  
Anonymous the other woman said...

Evel and Alida - I'm glad we have cleared that up. Thank you! =)

Now back to my housework and preparing dinner. I want all that stuff out of the way before tonight's show.

See you tonight!

11:31 AM  
Blogger Heidi Petrelli said...

One thing about Danielle(BB3)
She trashed people but she
sometimes was funny.
I have always wondered if
those very things she said would of been more accepted if Will Kirby
and Boogie had said them instead.
(and been shown after the show)

12:57 PM  
Blogger JudyD said...

My dear Cliff,
What you have written here and in the blog on the front page was insightful and beautiful.I also loved everyone else's responce.You all have given me hope for a better future as a woman.

My own 3 sister being women themselves looked down on me because of the carreer I chose was different from theirs.Most women who choose to be wives,mothers or care givers usully are looked at differently.

To me it isn't any diffrent because both types have a job be it inside or outside of the home.Just a payroll check with an amount of money on it is all the difference.

This world of ours needs all women to make it run smoothly.Be that she works 40+ hrs. a week or 24/7.Women make the world go round.

I give great praise for any woman who has to get up every day and leave their home to go to work anywhere.Thank you each and all for being who you are.

Sorry about the long blog.It's just you all have made my day.BB may be what we all in common but I find each and everyone of you a friend.

Never thought a Reality TV show could bring so many different people together to talk about everything and not cause a battle with words.

Thanks to people like Carolyn,Cliff,beth&eric,rallen,eval girl,innamorata,heidi,jessi,the other woman and all the anonymous bloggers.This site is the best on the Internet to me.

Love to all,

1:00 PM  
Blogger Jessie said...

Awww Judyd {{{{{group hug}}}}}
You're right, I have met several people during BB seasons that to this day are still very good friends! Men AND
It takes ALL kinds to make a GREAT group, and that is exactly what BB8dish is!

3:52 PM  
Blogger JudyD said...

Oh Jessie you brought tears to my eyes with that group{{{HUG}}}.Just what I mean this is a great place.I hope to know all you nice folks next year and who knows some day we can all meet.
Here's my {{{{HUG}}}} back to everyone here.

Again thank you Cliff for the wonderful blog.

Thank you Carolyn for this great place we call our second home.

BB8Dish - Ya Gotta Have It! Rules the Internet yet again.....

6:36 PM  
Blogger Cliff O'Neill said...

I must be having an estrogen rush. I'm getting all emotional.

You all are the best. Special love to JudyD!

8:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I would just like to say that I see why many women align with men. In this game aligning with anyone is a risky move because you never know if they will hold true to their word and you have a true alliance or if it is just for show... but I personally have very few female friends because many women are backstabbers. Women will turn on you in a minute - at least many of them. I had many friends that have violated the ultimate rule! Hands off the boyfriend/husband. This being said, that is why I don't trust women!


12:39 PM  

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